Still boiling with anger, there is a part of Germany that wants to argue with absolutely everything that Italy is saying now. He wants to argue that he didn't need Italy's help, and that he could have managed to pull himself back together after the first world war by himself. But even if that was the case, that's not the point - whether he needed it or not, Italy had been a support to him. So though Italy's claim that he couldn't have seen this coming back then gets a swift rebuttal, "Ja, I vas Germany in 1920." So of course he would recover and become this strong. Still, Italy has made his point, and Germany finds his temper cooling somewhat as a result. As emotional as Germany can get, at heart he is more ruled by his logic, so the best way to calm his temper is to throw logic at it until it gives in.
And because his temperature is cooling, instead of giving a quick retort as Italy expresses his own concerns about their alliance and friendship he stops his pacing, listens, and has to acknowledge within himself that these things are valid. "Nein, he does not see you as tools. He still speaks quite highly of you and especially your Boss. He and I value nothing higher than loyalty - both of us see you and your people as just as important as our ovn," he says, looking out one of the nearby windows. But he turns toward Italy as he adds, "That is vhy your vords and attitude are so troubling - since vhen do you make such demands, refuse to consider my perspective, and refuse to discuss a compromise? I feel like I'm being treated like an enemy by my best friend."
Forcing himself to take a deep breath and calm down further, he adds, "I acknovledge that I have not been a very good friend during the var. But that is only because var is a very, very messy business. I made no promises that I didn't intend to keep, but I vas unable to keep all of them. And I do appreciate all of the effort that you put in during the var. That is vhy I come here ready to discuss vith you how I may be able to help you recover from the var, to make up for those broken promises if I can, and if you feel like you deserve more land for your efforts, I'm villing to discuss that vith you. I only disagree vith hov much you are asking for - I think that it's too much. But that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate your efforts. If I didn't, there vould be no discussion at all." And hopefully having said that will clear up some of the air in here. Not the literal air, which he sees that Italy has decided to fill up with cigarette smoke, but the figurative air of their relationship that became clouded while he wasn't paying attention.
Though when Italy tells him to tell him what the compromise is, Germany actually finds that to be extremely irritating. Which is why some of the anger returns to his voice as he walks over to the table and says, "Vhat do you mean, tell you the compromise? Hov should I knov vhat the compromise is vithout talking to you about it first? You're not my territory, vho I tell vhat to do, you are my ally vho I talk things over vith!" He gives Italy a weird look, finding much about his attitudes during this entire conversation to be a bit strange. Then again, for all he knows the difficulties they're having in this conversation could be his own fault. After all, Italy did make some good points about his own failures, and a part of it is that they just plain didn't have much time to talk and so forth while he was busy during the war. They've both probably changed a bit since the last time they had a real conversation.
Post by Northern Italy on Feb 1, 2017 4:02:17 GMT -7
Perhaps Germany was oblivious to just how powerful he had become? After all, from the ashes of the German Empire from the Great War, although he had been weakened by France, Germany seemed to defy the odds. Not only did he become economically powerful again, he became the undisputed military power of all of Europe. In only six weeks of the Second World War, Germany achieved what he couldn't after four years of fighting in the trenches, all the Great Powers were shocked at the event of France's quick capitulation to the German army... So while to Germany it seemed inevitable that he would grow into continental Europe's Superpower, for Italy it had been a very unholy shock to suddenly find that he was nearly surrounded by the German Reich.
Though, the Italian had always seen Germany as a friend. He was always a little suspicious why he hadn't been invaded by Germany. Italy had his reasons to ally with Germany (strong military and economy, hates France, the false assumption that Italy could control Germany) but what was Germany's reason except for his southern flank to be covered? Did he really see him as a friend? Italy had no idea why Germany would see him as a friend, reportedly he had done very little to assist in Germany's war effort, except sending an Italian army to Russia. In fact the two had barely even cooperated together, they seemed to go their separate ways, Germany headed for Russia, Italy headed for Greece. But it was good to see that Italy wasn't just a simple puppet to Germany, at least that was what Germany said, but he would give his friend the benefit of the doubt.
As for Germany's question into why Italy was so... snappy had to do with many factors within his own empire. Despite conquering Ethiopia and Greece the two nations had massive resistance movements that harassed nearly every Italian convoy, destroying communications and rail way lines too. Lovino's continuous opposition to Il Duce's demands, made his patience start to wear thin and finally... The economic crisis. The Kingdom of Italy had been fighting wars for an entire decade, thus the severe cold that required him to take painkillers to try and ease the pain from the headaches.
"Well sorry if I seem a little... grouchy. I haven't exactly been going through good times recently."
Blowing a puff of smoke out of his mouth, Italy thought for a few seconds before telling Germany of a compromise. Germany's reasons for Africa were fair, thus taking anything there was off the table, so now he was left with Yugoslavia... He probably wasn't allowed to take the whole nation so maybe its provinces instead? Italy was already in possession of Montenegro when he hastily assisted in invading Yugoslavia with Germany so perhaps more of the Yugoslav regions would work?
"Okay then. How about... Slovenia, Croatia and Kosovo?"
Compared to what he was asking before these were safe options, they were small regions and were legitimate Italian claims. To Italy this seemed like a pretty fair deal, Germany could hand him the territories (which were probably useless anyway) and Italy could walk away with at least the Adriatic coast under heavy Italian influence.
It isn't that Germany is oblivious to just how powerful he is, it's that he doesn't quite acknowledge just how weak he was at one point. Even when his entire survival was looking a little grim, he didn't consider himself to be weak but in a difficult situation. Because power is not merely the amount of strength that someone has at a given moment of time, but the ability and drive to go and get what you want regardless of how much is in your way. And by that measure, Germany is no more or less powerful than he's always been.
So for him it's not very significant that Italy chose to be his friend while he was down. No, what's important is that Italy chose to be his friend at all. He hasn't exactly had the best luck in finding and keeping friends, which is why he's very quick to jump to the conclusion that Italy is leaving him too if he's given a reason to think that. Just because you're the most powerful empire in the world doesn't necessarily mean that you're completely confident about everything, after all. The mere fact that Italy decided that they're friends and hasn't betrayed him yet is a very big deal to him.
Which is why when Italy apologizes and stops being so 'grouchy' he's relatively quick to set aside his concerns. Could Italy be lying to him? Of course, but he'd rather not believe that and if he can't trust Italy then who can he trust? He murmurs a sound of understanding about his friend's current difficulties. Germany has to ask himself how much of that might be his fault for starting the war sooner than he promised. He felt that he had to, as the timing was ideal and he was concerned about waiting. And though his economy is doing quite a bit better than Italy, it's not without its problems. Absorbing this much territory so quickly causes a certain level of chaos and though the war may be over there are small or sometimes even large revolts to take care of almost everywhere. There's also the fact he'd so finely tuned everything for war that there is a lot that needs to be undone and readjusted to make it all fit for peacetime operations and that takes time, money, and a lot of work. Everyone has their difficulties right now.
But, hoping to alleviate Italy's difficulties - at least as much as he thinks is fair - when Italy adjusts what he's asking for to something more modest, he gives the idea careful consideration. Looking at the map of Yugoslavia, he first comments, "Hmm, I've already divided up even my own portion of Yugoslavia administratively - they hardly function very vell as a nation." Meaning that he's not opposed to the idea of officially dividing it up more than it already is. Italy and Bulgaria both have a piece of it already.
He stares at the map in silence for several moments as he considers the Adriatic Sea. Giving Italy both Slovenia and Croatia would mean that he personally won't have good access to that sea anymore, at least not without Italy allowing him passage - less than ideal, even between friends. Then again, how much access to the area will he need? And he's already planning to rebuild and just plain build more infrastructure into France and through his part of the Balkans that can serve as alternative routes if it comes to that - it's just less convenient. Also at issue is that he doesn't share Italy's thought that the territory is useless - it does have its resources, and coastlines in general are useful.
After pondering upon it, he looks up at Italy and says, "I vill need to run this by my Boss. ...But I'm going to recommend that ve agree to this and I expect that I can convince him of this much." Which he feels to be a rather large gift, considering the fact that he's not asking for anything in return, but he does want to be nice and generous toward his friend. Just not too generous. "And if you still vant the other territories later, ve can discuss them later. Vhen your economy recovers ve vill be able to discuss possible trades," he adds, knowing that Italy and Italy's Boss's desire for 'Mare Nostrum' is unlikely to go away. He just doesn't want to give away so much for nothing. But as things are Italy doesn't have anything much of value to trade for the land, except perhaps other land that he's unlikely to want to give up. Yet he's sure that, given enough time, Italy will recover and end up having something that he wants enough to trade the land for it. Which is a much better idea than letting Italy think that the best way to get what he wants is a war.
In the meantime, he's also interested in helping the Italian economy recover faster. Even if he's being entirely selfish, it's better for him if his southern neighbor is doing well. "And I vill send you the resources that I promised - and is there anything else you need? I don't have enough of some resources to spare right nov because I need some time to recover myself, but if you really need anything that I have a lot of, then I'm happy to have it sent to you. I can't have my best friend being 'grouchy'," he offers, as almost any resource is something that he can give away much more freely than land. After all, if he needs more of something like coal he simply has to mine more of it. Natural resources like that and labor are both easy for him to come by right now, and if that will help ease some of Italy's woes then he's happy to help.
Post by Northern Italy on Feb 3, 2017 19:01:01 GMT -7
When Germany and his government started the war, they had caught their Italian partners by surprise. They had expected as the Pact of Steel had stated three moths prior: No war will break out until at least three years had past. Italy not yet ready in the slightest, could only helplessly watch as Germany conquered Western Europe, as France collapsed like a house of cards he finally committed himself to the war, albeit reluctantly.
Germany starting the war was hardly ideal for Italy at the time and many of the problems that Italy now faced were probably due to this unexpected commencement of hostilities, in any case, it was better that he could actually gain land than sit idly by in neutrality.
The only real use he had for the Adriatic was to show that the Kingdom of Italy was still relevant in Europe. If he couldn't dominate the Mediterranean than he would dominate the Adriatic first, he had one of the largest fleets in the whole world, then when he recovered, he would take the Mediterranean himself.
With Germany's assurances that this deal may be possible, Italian shipping would could to dominate the area and send valuable war material to Greece where an army of close to a three quarters of a million men would soon assemble for the conquest of Turkey, Italy's next land that he felt needed to become part of his empire. With Turkey under his control, the Black Sea and Mediterranean would be at his mercy, Germany would be thanked for this great service.
"Ve~ thank you for your assurances, though I won't need anymore territories from you after this." Especially if his cards were played right about a quick conquest of Turkey.
Perhaps Germany was in a good mood today? The long overdue resources were apparently on their way to Italy after all, it's not that he wasn't happy that they were finally coming, but it was just so uncharacteristic to see Germany being sloppy at something. Well now that that was sorted, Italy needed something else from the German, something vital.
"Thank you for the resources, but there is one more thing that I need Germany. I'd like to form a technology sharing agreement with you. Though, we will pay for technology handsomely, seeing that it is you that pioneer these technological marvels. How about it Germany?"
Italy had heard that Germany was one of the most advanced nations in science, acquiring some of the German technology would be a valuable asset to his empire. And Italy wanted all of it and was willing to spend a large amount of money for it.
When Italy is so quick to state that he won't be wanting the other territories he initially requested, Germany is both surprised and skeptical. After being so intolerant of the idea of a compromise, now he's perfectly fine with it? Not that he isn't used to his friend's behavior occasionally making him wonder if he's deciding some of his actions using some sort of an internal random number generator... Still, he intends to act like he believes him but watch him closely - which is pretty much par for the course for all of his relationships, no matter how supposedly close and trusted they are.
So instead of expressing his skepticism, he simply questions, "Oh?" Because saying such a thing may also hint at future plans, and if so he'd like to know about it. And if not then he can directly question the statement.
Though when Italy shifts the topic over to one of technology sharing, Germany instantly looks hesitant. "Vell, Ja, perhaps I can share some of it, I found a number of interesting technologies in France, for example," he answers first, but then adds, "Though I can't agree to share much of my proprietary technology. Vhich is nothing against you, but I'm afraid that I'm rather possessive of it. After the last var one of the 'reparations' I had to 'pay' vas all of my patents, so I think you can understand that I vould like to have vhat is mine stay mine - the past 13 years are all that I have that is mine."
Of course, the past 13 years have been some of the most creative, productive, and prolific years of his life when it comes to technology. He's invented a very large number of new things, and is in the middle of working on several more. Then again, several of those are being put on hold because they were ideas for the war effort, and now that the war is over they seem unimportant when compared to more civil pursuits. Then again, some of the things that he felt were close to real breakthroughs he's still working on anyway - he might as well, especially since he has no idea when the next war will be and he'd like to have an edge on everyone else.
Not that he's extremely worried that he'll end up in a war with Italy, but then again any technology that he gives to Italy is then outside of his own control - whether his ally intentionally gives it to someone else or spreads it around by accident. Besides, he's still having flashbacks to that time when he attempted to teach Italy how to throw a grenade. He may have a somewhat exaggerated opinion of his best friend's abilities when it comes to war and so forth, but he has a more accurate idea of just how well Italy copes with technology.
Post by Northern Italy on Feb 6, 2017 23:58:36 GMT -7
There was a snowball's chance in hell that Italy was going to reveal any of his future plans. The last thing he needed was Germany interfering with his numerous and draft stage plans, that ranged from capturing Enrico Fermi in America to try and see if there is a possibility to create a bomb using uranium, to an Italian invasion of the North American continent.
Germany knowing anything about his projects could put Italy at a disadvantage and Germany could even tamper with Italian projects... So when Germany questions, Italy instead changes the subject to possible technology sharing... Which went as well as he expected it to go.
"Ah of course, that makes sense, I understand why you would do that."
It appeared Germany was as stingy as Austria after all? Well they were related so that would make a lot of sense. It seemed that Germany wanted to cling on to his technology...
At this point Italy was questioning whether he should even bother talking to Germany any further, every single attempt to gain anything constructive had turned out to be a miserable failure and there were few things in his mind to talk about from this point on. All that was achieved for Italy was the possibility of obtaining partisan rich areas of Slovenia, Croatia and Kosovo, some resources that were far overdue and were probably reduced and a sweet warm batch of absolutely nothing...
Excellent! Il Duce was not going to be happy, then again the man already despised Hitler and Germany. In fact, perhaps Italy shouldn't talk to Germany after this... Ever. The man's very presence was now starting to severely annoy him, to the point of shooting Germany in the face.
If Italy was going to get anywhere in this world he would have to do it alone, it seemed that he could trust next to no one in this world except his dear Eritrea. The fact that Italy trusted Eritrea more than his own brother was an indicator of how little he trusted Southern Italy. No one in this world liked him or trusted him, nor wanted anything to do with him, hence Italy himself had to reform before any of his imperial projects were launched.
Italy, tiredly looked at Germany. There was now very little to talk about, at least in Italy's case.
When Italy skips over answering his hint of a question entirely, Germany frowns to himself about it. Now he's being reminded of Greece again - Italy's invasion of that nation wasn't exactly done with his knowledge and consent. And look at how well that went for him. He really should have told Italy that Greece itself was the price that he'd have to pay for that whole debacle, but instead he was nice about it. He finds himself questioning from moment to moment about whether or not that was a good decision. If only Italy's actions and reactions were somewhat more reliable and predictable - then he could possibly actually figure out how he feels about it and stick to that.
At least Italy seems to be responding well to his reluctance to share his technology. Though that he was asked in the first place rubs him slightly the wrong way, and it gets even worse the more that he thinks about this. Was this what Italy intended the meeting to be about - an opportunity to ask him for free things? Given how large his requests have been, the fact that he's not offering anything in return is becoming more and more conspicuous. Yes, he knows that Italy doesn't have very much at the moment (and that he is partially to blame for that) but surely he couldn't think of at least some token in honor of their friendship?
His uncomfortable thoughts are interrupted by Italy's question, asking if there's anything else - further underscoring for Germany the fact that apparently thanking him in any way was not planned into the agenda if Italy indeed has nothing further to discuss. But he sets that thought aside and instead tries to focus on his own business. Looking contemplatively at Italy, he asks, "I'm vondering vhat your thoughts are about our allies - Japan and England? And also America. There vas a tremendous advantage to our allies to be our allies during the var, but nov that the var has ended their interests are no longer quite so aligned vith ours. Not that I'm accusing anyone of anything, but it vould be foolish to think that everything vill stay the same nov. And America seems to be in a position vhere he is a bit lacking in friends - strong ones, at least."
Post by Northern Italy on Feb 15, 2017 23:01:21 GMT -7
To be fair, Italy had largely underestimated Greece. He actually thought he had the same military power as Germany did and saw Greece as only another Belgium, Greece proved to be far from a Belgium. Not only had the Italian army had been halted, but it had been pushed back into Albania, embarrassed at this display of extreme incompetence, Italy had ordered a full scale war against his smaller neighbor.
It was only when Feliciano threw the entire Italian military into the war effort, that the Italians finally broke the Greek front line and within weeks, Athens itself. Despite a clear and extremely costly military victory in Greece, it only showed the world the corruption and poor shape of the Italian army, having to throw large amounts of troops to break a smaller nation's army. The Greek campaign was such a disaster that Italian plans to invade Yugoslavia and Bulgaria were no longer possible as they were then under full Axis influence.
Italy did in fact realize how one sided these talks were going in his own favor but one had to ask... What in God's name could Italy give to Germany? He had nothing... He had next to no territory, all the resources Italy had in large amounts Germany already had, money was no possible to give as it had been invested into war production. The one thing he did have were Jews in those areas, but he seriously doubted Germany would consider them a token of friendship. How could you give something to someone who had everything?
At this point, Italy realizes that anymore talk of one way concessions to him were off the cards. The German practically stated, that Italy should be happy with what little he has and should shut up. Well at least Germany was happy that Italy had his little empire of sand...
"Our allies? I see England as a threat to me personally, for you I am not quite sure how you get along with him. He will probably honor the Axis Pact because of your close proximity to the United Kingdom. As for Japan I am not really sure, however it would be suicide for Japan to bring war to you, so he should remain at your side... As for America he is the single biggest threat to the Axis Powers. I would personally like to see this 'Arsenal of Democracy' be under the control of German, Japanese and English troops within the next 10 to 20 years."
England and Japan were not Italy's allies, they were Germany's. Had Germany turned his back the two of them would probably wipe Italy off the map, he did not consider them his allies but rather Germany's allies, Italy after all was treated as the junior and lowest rank ally of the leading Axis nations. Hence his decisions in Axis conferences were practically useless as he had no diplomatic weight whatsoever, his destiny was practically tied to Germany's in any case. He also viewed an invasion of America unrealistic and too costly for Italy, therefore his allies could have all they wanted from that American pie.
Ever since Germany's outburst the man had given him odd looks, as if he was confused who he was meeting with. As if Italy was a completely new person, the German didn't seem to trust him nor give him the little respect he had for Italy in the past, at least that was in Feliciano's opinion. He had to mend this... Bad relations with Germany would leave Italy in a very uncomfortable position, as he feared any day soon of a German invasion... What on earth could he give Germany? He was very much poorer than his friend so any gifts he gave were practically meaningless.
"Germany... How would you feel if I send you men to help administer provinces until they are no longer needed. After all you don't have as many men after the war, in fact why not have my Blackshirts and 500'000 guest workers come to Germany? As payment for the resources and territory?"
He knew such a deal would leave himself very much handicapped, as he had a lower population. The promise of potentially many Blackshirts and half a million Italians helping power the German empire to recover quickly from the war, could leave Italy himself to suffer for possibly decades. Germany wouldn't know that it would severely cripple Italy, but was mending relations with Germany by helping him recover over himself and his brother really worth it? Well... Sacrifices had to be made, if Italy couldn't give Germany resources, he'd give Germany the manpower needed to recover quicker from the war.
A hard and bitter pill to swallow, to assure that Italy wouldn't have a German gun aimed at his head months from now.
Last Edit: Feb 15, 2017 23:02:43 GMT -7 by Northern Italy
As Italy begins to explain his thoughts on their allies, Germany's expression shifts into a puzzled frown. "A threat? Hov is England a threat to you? Has he done anything to you?" he asks, as he doesn't understand why Italy would feel that way and is pretty sure that he would have noticed if there was a reason for a serious rift between his best friend and their ally. As far as he's aware - and he makes it a point to be aware of as much as possible - England has been a model ally. Not necessarily passionate about their cause, but honoring all of his agreements to the letter.
"But I vould not be so dismissive of Japan. He is nothing if not confident, and did very, very vell for himself during the var," he comments, arguing with the idea that it's safe to believe that Japan would never attack Germany but not actually saying anything. And he also disagrees with Italy's assessment of America, adding, "I agree that the fact that America is both powerful and not a part of the Axis is a problem. But is var vith him the best ansver? You sav hov vell he did against England..." Which means a lot of things to Germany, though it doesn't mean that he's afraid of him. After all, he's fairly confident that he is still quite a bit stronger than America, and especially if he has England at his side he's sure that he could defeat him. But should he? That's a different question entirely. And now he knows Italy's mind on the subject.
Which is so distracting and thought-provoking for him that it takes him a moment to realize that Italy is talking to him, and then another to try to figure out if what his friend is saying now has any relevance to what they were talking about before or whether this is an abrupt change of the subject. "Vhat? Men?" he asks, trying to mentally catch up, "Didn't you lose men during the var as vell? Don't you need them to help you rebuild as vell? I can make do vith vhat I have - you need them more than I do. Besides, I vasn't expecting you to pay me back." The fact that this offer directly contradicts the private thoughts that Germany had before is actually completely missed because the German finds the sheer impracticality of it too distracting.
Post by Northern Italy on Feb 26, 2017 22:51:53 GMT -7
Germany didn't seem to understand why England was a threat to him. Italy couldn't exactly blame the German as he did not suffer the same problems as the brunette did, to him England wasn't to be trusted. As long as England maintained his sovereignty, he was very much a threat to Italy's 9 year old empire. Germany however had a much more lucky area of operations with most of continental Europe and parts of Africa and Asia.
"Ve~ Germany, you see... England controls all access to and from the Mediterranean and can completely cut me off from the world. I have to make sure I am on his good side to be able to use the sea lanes, if I have a falling out with England, all my supplies to Italian East Africa will be stopped and my trade will fall sharply. My economy would then flat line and eventually die... So England is the most important person within the Axis that I have to be on good terms with."
While Italy did regard Japan as a strong power, compared to Germany, he had no doubt that his best friend would win. Sure, Japan would fight to the last man, but determination was not enough when fighting Germany, one had to be one step ahead of the German to be able to defeat him. Italy seriously doubted Japan's ability to be able to achieve this successfully. His ally possessed the world's largest and strongest military, it was very advanced, led by excellent generals and was quite efficient, something that only Italy himself could dream that his own army could be.
The case of America being a threat to the Axis Powers was quite laughable, England, Germany and Japan all possessed large militaries and could probably defeat America with ease. The chances of American survival against the Three Axis Powers all at once was to be honest quite small. Italy simply shrugged at Germany's reply, he himself did not see America as a concern. The blessing of being the smallest of the major Axis Powers was that he was often overlooked and seen as probably unimportant in the world, very few would even care about what Italy was doing anyway. If people wanted to see the defeat of the Axis Powers, they were thinking of the other three powers, Italy on the other hand would probably be left alone or either dismissed as a minor player.
"I have no opinion of how to deal with America. He is of no concern to me whatsoever, I am sure England, Japan and yourself will solve that issue."
Italy's only meaningful invasion of the entire war was the war with Greece, as such his country hadn't needed to rebuild whatsoever, in fact not a single bomb was ever dropped upon Italy itself. While the campaign in Greece was an eventual victory, he had only lost a small 50'000 men in the entire Second World War, only the economy had suffered a hit, but Italy was far from devastated. Hence while very painful to lose scarce factory workers, Feliciano could afford to send workers to Germany at the cost of helping himself, it was very inconvenient however it was something at least.
"No, no I will be okay. It is the least I can do. I wasn't badly devastated from the war anyway."
As Italy explains his concerns about England, Germany is frowning both in thought but also due to his opinion of his friend's opinions. "Nein, the most important person vithin the Axis that you have to be on good terms vith is me," he corrects, his tone somewhat dismissive, "But that does not make either of us a threat to you. You are on good terms vith both of us, so unless you are in danger of falling out of good terms vith us then there is no threat." Though the words and expression are rather casual, he's now watching the Italian with very observant eyes.
But then again, what else is new? Especially after the first world war, he's very quick to be paranoid and suspicious of pretty much everyone for even the slightest of reasons. Even his best friend, though Italy does enjoy a much larger measure of doubt than most nations when it comes to how much reason he can be given to doubt without truly setting off the proverbial alarm bells. Mostly due to having a long-standing record of being very, very unreliable and yet still loyal. And as much as Germany loves reliability, loyalty is still more important to him.
When Italy is so quick to give such a dismissive answer to his question about America, Germany is quick to ask a follow-up question that isn't so easily sidestepped. "Solve that issue? Hov is it to be solved?" he asks tilting his head in an interested way - making it clear that this is an important question to him.
He's also not very quick to accept Italy's attempt to offer the gift of men. "I vasn't badly devastated from the var either. Yes, defeating Russia vas very costly - much more than I expected - in both men and materials, but I gained Russia in the process and all the men there. And the same vith every country in my realm. I do not need more," he states. Not that he couldn't find a use for them as his 'to-do after the war' list is extremely long, but the impact of the additional men would be far smaller than the impact of the subtraction of so many men to Italy. Because Italy's economy is so very, very, very much smaller than his.
Post by Northern Italy on Mar 30, 2017 18:15:35 GMT -7
Germany telling Italy, that he had to be on good terms with the German was not well received by the Italian, in fact it ignited his fear of being considered a lesser member of the Axis. As the German continued speaking this fear seemed to be more or less confirmed, Germany was talking as if his new closest ally would be England instead of him, this was... Not good, to say the least for the Italian. This meeting was not exactly going as well as Italy had wanted, the German seemed to regard him in a new light, almost as if Germany didn't trust Italy anymore, though if the placed in Germany's position the brunette wouldn't trust himself either. Laughing nervously, he maintained eye contact with the German despite the fact that it was getting more difficult to do so.
"Ah, yes, yes of course. I won't do anything to... Annoy you two."
Seeing that America and Italy were quite far from one another, the Italian honestly just assumed the other three members of the Axis would deal with America if they saw him as a threat. So when Germany asks how America should be handled, Italy honestly had no idea what to say or what to suggest, perhaps eliminating America as a naval threat? Italy didn't exactly what to risk looking like more of an idiot at this point.
"Well I'm not too sure, I'm sure you have a plan for Axis relations with America?"
Italy was honestly relieved that Germany refused. It meant that he would not have to bother assisting Germany in anyway, he had his own troubles after all. If the blond did not accept his gift, what else could Italy do? Crossing his arms he smiled, though it was a friendly smile not one that hinted any hostility towards his friend, though the meeting had been quite a disaster for him at least there was some silver lining.
"Ve~ I understand, you just tell me if you need any assistance and I'll see what I can do to help..."
However, despite the fact that the previous tension was fading in his opinion, the fact that England could replace him as he thought Russia would have made him a little nervous. Hopefully, Germany would never consider replacing Italy or even invading him... Perhaps Italy should be more appreciative that he was allowed to have an empire in the first place?
Last Edit: Mar 30, 2017 18:16:01 GMT -7 by Northern Italy
Neither the nervous laughter or the words spoken by Italy does much to reassure Germany about his friend's intentions. For what reason is his closest friend so nervous about him? If he'd actually done anything material against him, he would understand, but they've just finished a war together and he doesn't think that he's given the Italian any reason to be so nervous. He can understand it if his best friend is a bit upset and frustrated with the timeline of the war and how poorly he's lived up to his promises, but why is there fear?
But he decides to not address that now, being unsure of how to do so exactly. So instead he now turns his attention to the question of America. "Of course I have a plan," he says instantly, not having to think about it. Germany almost always has a plan for nearly everything, after all. "But I vanted your thoughts on the matter. I may be the de facto leader of the alliances, but that doesn't mean that your opinion and the opinions of the others aren't extremely important. Hov ve deal vith America vill most likely end up having major consequences for the future, and I vouldn't presume to make that decision for everyone vithout their input," he states. And he has to wonder at the fact that his ally seems to be expecting him to simply handle it for him. Whether the lack of involvement is due to Italy having assumed that his input wasn't wanted or wasn't necessary, that's definitely a sign of something bad.
Which is why Germany seems somewhat distracted as he gets told to tell Italy if he needs any help with anything. "Yes, of course, and you let me knov as vell if I can be of assistance to you in any vay," he says almost automatically, putting very little thought into his words because his mind is elsewhere.
Post by Northern Italy on May 9, 2017 3:41:26 GMT -7
This meeting was clearly straying from the path that his Boss had envisioned. Not only had all his proposals been practically rejected by Germany, but it also appeared that Germany was quite content on letting Italy put up with his very subordinate role in the post-war world. Italy seriously wondered whether, his situation would have been better had Germany loss the war, sadly he would never know. He soon lost hope that he would ever acquire anything more, Germany seemed to tell Italy that if he wanted to get more land, he would have to earn it himself on the battlefield instead of fighting wars to the last German and reaping the rewards after.
He may be Germany's friend, but even friends could betray one another, Italy would never betray Germany, if he wanted to live at least, it seemed that their friendship for the moment seemed to save Italy himself from invasion.... But would it last? How long would it take for Germany to start to see him as a threat? The Italian was very anxious not to get on the wrong side of the German, however all that seemed to happen was Germany becoming disillusioned by his actions, little by little.
Germany continued to press for his opinion on how to deal with America. Italy had absolutely no idea on how to deal with America, the man across the Atlantic was quite far away from Italy's mind to be honest, his brother was more closer to America than he was, in fact Italy knew very little about the man. And yet Germany was asking for his opinion on how to deal with America? Italy simply stared back at the German's blue eyes trying to think of a response....
"Errr..... America.... I guess we just trade with him and look the other way?"
Italy hoped his answer would be sufficient to the German. Surely it wasn't stupid just to maintain peace? Italy's economy was suffering badly and war with America was not in Italy's interests at the moment. Should war breakout, Italy was at no point ready to march with his allies this time, the bad headaches and colds that he and his brother both had, would only get much worse than they were now. The Axis should just be content with what they had in Italy's opinion, let the peace last at least for a few decades.
If Germany knew just how ungenerously he was being painted in his best friend's mind, he'd be extremely offended. Was he really expected to just hand over a lot of valuable land for free? And he even handed over some of it, and is willing to sell or trade for the rest when Italy is able to afford it - that's extremely generous of him! Fortunately, as powerful as he is, he doesn't possess the power of reading minds. Or perhaps that's unfortunate - the line of thinking that the Italian is going down right now is only going to lead to trouble, and if Germany knew about it now then he'd be able to stop it before it gets any worse.
As it is, Germany would be very hard pressed to consider Italy much of a credible threat, at least on his own. And even if Italy began to worry him, he'd rather talk it over with him instead of doing anything rash - at least as long as he doesn't catch wind of Italy doing anything that is obviously intentionally against him. Germany would not react to that very well... Of course if he only caught Italy being suspiciously chummy with another, more powerful empire that would also be highly suspicious to Germany. Then again, Germany is already very suspicious of everyone always.
When Italy answers his question about America in such a way, the expression on Germany's face is one that the Italian is highly familiar with: a dissatisfied frown. But then his expression is replaced by a thoughtful look as he says, "Vhy vould be need to look the other vay?" Because no, an attempt at peace and trade at this point is hardly foolish - which is why Germany already had that idea himself. But rather than acknowledging it as a good answer for that reason, he instead finds himself mentally tripping up over the part of the answer that confuses him.